Ep 65 - Mapping The Future With Rob McCarty Of Illust

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So we all know that it's no secret that interactive maps have become an integral part of our everyday lives. Whether you're trying to find a new cafe in town or just following your route from work, we've all come to rely on them for convenience and accuracy. But what if there was a way for you, for the tech-savvy artists or entrepreneurs, to harness modern web 3D-powered technology and create your own dynamic maps?  I'm here today with one of the co-founders of ILLUST, Rob McCarty, as he spills some hot tea on how they are bringing us one step closer to the future of digital mapping with this groundbreaking platform. So grab your map pins and a cup of tea and get comfy because the tea is hot.

Join ILLUST  in Denver and get your passport HERE,ILLUST.AR

Rob McCarty and his business partner, who have a background in working with Facebook, Spark AR, and Snap, created Illust, the first augmented reality NFT. Through blockchain technology, the platform is advancing digital mapping and helping content creators regain control of their art. . Rob provides insight into his own journey in launching his business and developing the digital marketing space. He describes the advancements in creating digital graphics through augmented reality and the convenience of an interactive map for finding locations and following routes.

Thyme 4 Tea Show Notes

00:03:19 Content creators own their art.
00:13:03 Engage the metaverse with tools.
00:14:09 Denver Rewards for engaging experiences.
00:27:31 AR NFTs are the future.
00:30:01 Prioritize yourself for success.
00:34:34 Stay focused and organized.

"I love Mikita and how she continues to share stories of others." ; If that sounds like you, please take a few minutes and leave me a quick review. This helps me support more people and share more stories.  Then hop over to my IG and let's connect if we haven't already mikitasmith_

Transcript

00:01 Mikita: All right, welcome back. It is definitely time for some tea. I'm Mikita. Thank you so much for just sharing your time, your space, and your energy with us today. So we all know that it's no secret that interactive maps have become an integral part of our everyday lives. Whether you're trying to find a new cafe in town or just following your route from work, we've all come to rely on them for convenience and accuracy. But what if there was a way for you, for the tech-savvy artists or entrepreneurs to harness modern web 3D-powered technology and create your own dynamic maps? Well, guess what? There is. And I'm here today with one of the co-founders of ILLUST, Rob McCarty, as he spills some hot tea on how they are bringing us one step closer to the future of digital mapping with this groundbreaking platform. So grab your map pins and your cup of tea and get comfy because the tea is definitely hot. So Rob, just welcome. It's an honor to have you back as a special guest to spill some hot tea with us today.

01:03 Rob: I appreciate that, Mikita.

01:05 Mikita: Yeah. So for those who are not as familiar with, you know, what you do, can you give us just a little background on?

01:15 Rob: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we, so many, many moons ago, it seems like ages, but about three years ago, we actually started Illust. And we were, we're the team that did the first augmented reality NFT. And augmented reality being the technology where you're able to display a digital graphic that looks like it is visible on the physical world. So like Pokemon Go is usually a good reference point for people who are just kind of cracking the surface of what augmented reality is. And so we did the first one of those graphics that was on the blockchain that was then sold with the, the, unfortunately, passed away, but hip hop artists, MF Doom. And that was kind of the first foray for the space to kind of see what, what the relationship was between the blockchain and digital space. And so my background came from working with helping Facebook, well now Meta, launch Spark AR at South by Southwest in 2019. And Spark AR is they're like augmented reality creator tools. So it allows people to create AR graphics that they can deploy. And so, and my business partner came out of the Snap ecosystem and he was one of their first creative partners. And he has a lot of really, he's an incredible artist.

02:43 Rob : Coldplay and some really cool artists. And we, and he was just down the street from me and we, we got to thinking about what the world could look like if the artists own the graphics versus the platforms. And so that's where we saw the blockchain as such a great technology that could be explored to see how we can give provenance back to the artists. And so rather than having to create a graphic and be paid by a brand to create it for them, the artists could create the graphic for themselves as artwork and then be able to sell that. And then someone who collects it could actually make that artwork visible in the world through AR. And so that's, that's kind of set the ground, the groundwork for the map technology that we've built out, but that's, yeah, that's kind of how we got to. That's pretty much it.

03:38 Mikita : Yeah, you know, I've seen more lately that content creators want more control over their, their art. They've been a big push for like, I want to have, you know, I don't want to split that with the third party, I want to be able to create that art and let it be mine without having someone else have, you know, creative control over that. So I'm glad to see that y'all are continuing that.

04:03 Rob : Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, back

04:07 Rob : I need to do a quick fact check, but last time I looked, Spark AR and I believe BUN Studio as well, when you uploaded a digital graphic through their platform to Meta or Snap, they actually put a license that they own the artwork that you're uploading to their platforms. And so if they really want to be an asshole about it, it's part of my French there, but if they really want to be just nefarious, they could say, no, we hold this and then they can sell it against any... Basically, they can cut the artists out after they just publish, which it's on their best interest, but we're all for maintaining ownership of the things that we create.

04:55 Mikita : Yeah, definitely.

04:58 Mikita : What has your career path looked like as you've grown?

05:03 Rob : Totally, totally. It's been, it's been a really, it's been a fascinating career path. I'll tell you that I did not expect to find myself in this cutting edge side of technology. I started my first business. It was a pedicab business. And we did pedicabs at the university of Southern California. It's called Trojan chariots. And we were selling digital billboards on the back of the chariots. And so I was always under the impression that I was going to, I was, I always wanted to start something. And I always wanted to know what was going on technology. Cause I felt like I didn't want to be a miss from, or I want to be at least be able to speak the language. So I, so I could be able to, you know, down the road when I have kids, if my kids are engaged in technology, I might be able to relate to them and, and speak their language. And so I always kind of kept an eye in the digital marketing space and then had an opportunity with one of my friends to help them with their website. Sell digital, basic digital billboards, but on a website through, through display ads, and so figured out how that operation worked and then helped them grow their numbers from a thousand monthly uniques on the site to about 2 million monthly uniques on the site. And then brought in some really cool partners in the, in the process. And as that was going on, some of our friends were engaging with the RIP Vine and Vine at that time was an incredible distribution mechanism for stories and granted there were six seconds, but someone would publish a Vine and it would get millions of impressions, millions of engagements, likes, comments, and it would be a cultural meme, just like it's a rough of a hat. And so we decided to help those creators grow their business and grow their brand.

07:06 Rob : find brand deals and package up campaigns in a similar kind of way that we're doing for our online website, the partners that were sponsoring our online website. We would create these, these, these campaigns that told their brand story, but through this, this new technology. And then we extended it to Instagram creators, and then we extended it to YouTube creators. And soon enough, we built a pretty decently sized influencer agency called Pop Shorts. And I was working on bringing brands together and helping them see the value of these new technologies and how they could be able to tell their, their brand stories. And so during that point, I ended up moving out to New York to build up East Coast operations and realized that.

07:56 Rob : I just fell in love with, and the 360 video came out and I got my hands on a Samsung 360. I just took it everywhere with me. And I was never one to be say, I guess a creator. I always worked alongside to help support, but I had so much fun with it. And I just took it everywhere. And I started asking, I was hoping to get into some concerts that were sold out. So I asked if they wanted someone to film the concert in 360 and I just tried to find ways to just capture content and capture essentially these worlds that are in the sense of I can look around and I can see everything in a 360 video. It's about kind of bringing that world to life that I can then kind of pocket it and then share it a month from now. And then you can kind of get a glimpse into what happened at that day and that time at that place.

08:53 Rob : And so.

08:55Rob : as we kind of connecting the dots. So I ended up selling my equity back to my business partners and just be like, I'm diving into this. I'm gonna figure out how to make this work and to tell these new stories. And so I got into this, like on the immersive tech side and just really started pushing.

09:13 Rob : with different ways to tell stories and then started building out like an art department with motion designers and some 3D artists and game designers.

09:22 Rob : To create these, these immersive experiences and ended up getting featured on the Oculus. You know, one of the big things when we got our first, our video guy was on the Oculus homepage. And it was on the Samsung, uh, was, was featured through the Samsung's channel and got a lot of visibility for it. And one of my contacts that was at Samsung ended up going over to Facebook. And she kind of knew my Genesis from influencers to this and, and, and, and

09:49 Rob : This is at the time that Facebook was launching Spark AR. And so she asked if I wanted to help them bridge the gap between the creator communities who are doing motion design and do it and using these different and using different tools from usually like the Adobe suite to create really cool, immersive experiences to, to help them. See the potential of what Spark AR can do as, as an augmented reality creator tool. And after seeing some of the numbers, it was really, it was really impressive. So I helped them launch Spark AR into the creator community where I got to meet my now business partner and made a lot of great friendships and, and now coming full circle, getting to meet people with a lot different interests, pasta-한 some other thinking pieces. Talking to some people to try out some things that I think could benefit more

10:35 Rob : we're starting to use this map technology to tell new stories for brands, for artists, for creators. So I'm finding myself kind of straddling the lines of both the world that was from the pedicab advertising, digital brand storytelling, but then also to the immersive, to what you can do with this kind of technology. So it's been a really, I never would have guessed that this is the area that I would have fallen into, but it's really, it gets me up in the morning motivated and just seeing some of the ways that.

11:13 Rob: are still to be written and to be determined by some of these partners. So, yeah, it's been a fun ride.

11:22 Mikita: It definitely has like your journey from, you know, doing the ads and then having that opportunity to just continue to grow and wanting to get into it just, you know, to keep up. I think that's how I kind of got into wanting to know more about technology. Like I didn't want to be left behind. So much was happening. And I was never really savvy with technology, but I was like, this is so fun. Like the whole recording, like you said, 360 was just like, you felt like you were there. In the room and everything was around you, even if you won't like it was so cool. So I love how you've grown and how you, you still keep that creative side. It's like, you know, even though you say you're straddling that fence there, but I think you kind of need both components in a way.

12:08 Rob : Totally, totally. And I think now that I've been in on the creative side for some time, now that the technology is at a place where we're starting to make it public, because we've been pretty much a year and a half, we've been really pretty quiet about what we've been building as we've been really pushing ahead. And we have some different case studies, but now it's really exciting to kind of put the, how can this technology help your storytelling abilities, or your brand, or your influence, that it's starting to call back some of the older days.

12:48 Mikita : So speaking of that, what's new with ILLUST? Like I know you guys are doing something amazing and it's about to take off and you gotta tell us all about that.

12:59Rob : 100%, 100%.

13:01 Rob : Yeah, so.

13:04Rob : with

13:05Rob : We usually say inside the organization, we usually say this, my business partner and I, we always kind of reference this, but we think the best metaverse is the one outside. We have the operating system for it. We know how to engage. It's clear to us. And so what we wanted to do is be able to give the same kinds of tools for the metaverse, but provide those to Main Street. And so the things such as...

13:35Rob : visibility and immersion and connection and loyalty and rewards and data and and like digital collectibles all these things that really drive the narrative forward with the metaverse we realize that

13:56Rob : While people are on location, we can be serving up experiences that are very unique to that moment, and that moment, and that location specifically.

14:06Rob : And so last year, I think last year.

14:09Rob : Well, when I jumped on the podcast, we were just releasing the proof of presence system.

14:15Rob : and the proof of presence system.

14:17Rob : was a very formative component to being able to.

14:24Rob : accurately.

14:27Rob : deliver a moment for somebody. And the moment could be...

14:32Rob : you see this AR graphic. The moment could be you're able to claim a limited edition piece of artwork or a reward or an incentive. The moment could be just saying, hey, I was here. And if you wanna fall back and see if I was present, I was there. And so that technology is really important for, as we talk about,

15:00Rob : ownership and we talk about.

15:03Rob : the importance of knowing that something is legitimate, which is a big reason why we use blockchain technology, because it doesn't require ILLUS to always be the judicial board saying, that's legit, that's not legit. It allows us to be able to use a technology that's already been created, that establishes ownership and provenance, so that we can make the decisions that we need to make.

15:28Rob : we can facilitate creating tools, but we can allow anyone to participate. To put that into context, so.

15:37Rob : So

15:38Rob : Not anyone can necessarily create a Pokemon Go. That's a huge lift. That's a very huge lift.

15:46Rob : But through blockchain technology and the power of it being interoperable with other systems and it just being very cohesive that.

15:55Rob : Things can kind of work together and they're decentralized. So there's not as much worry about servers going down or things of that nature that this gamification can be given to any local business. It can be given to any artist. It can be given to anyone.

16:14Rob : and it doesn't create an incredible scaling issue for us. And so.

16:20Rob : So what is it? So what is Illest? So we're in its interactive map.

16:26Rob : And so we're using.

16:28Rob : a thing that we're so used to, which is maps, but what we're doing is anytime there's a specific like waypoint or point of interest that's on the map.

16:39Rob : any of those points of interest, someone could create a virtual check-in saying that I went to that place through the proof of presence system. And when they go to that location, they'll also be an augmented reality experience that they can engage with.

16:48Mikita : I know.

16:58Rob : And so what's really exciting about this is that.

17:03Rob : because we've now, it's now.

17:07Rob : no longer just one giant map and there's only one map.

17:11Rob : There's now channel maps. And so I have my map, but the artist that's going on tour has their map.

17:19Rob : And so what we're able to do is we're able to share these different maps that contain points of interest that are tied specifically to me. And so

17:31Rob : If someone checks in at that point of interest, now I know that they're like a truly engaged fan or participant in the experiences that I'm creating. So this kind of takes the evolution of that is, if again, if you're on tour, you can see, well, which fan actually went to all 12 tour locations and maybe I should give them a reward or maybe give them an upgrade on their tickets for the last show. Or you could be a movie, you could be...

18:03Rob : during opening week.

18:05Rob : at the movie theaters, you could potentially distribute an AR experience to every, I think there's like 2,800 movie theaters in the US.

18:14Rob : you can then deliver a specially unique experience from.

18:19Rob : the movie to those different locations. And then if you actually engage with that experience, you might get a voucher for free popcorn. Or if, for example, I'm a big Lakers fan out here in LA. So if the Lakers are playing, say the Denver Nuggets, and there's, you know, and LeBron has an absolute incredible day, there might be a digital collectible with his point total on the jersey somewhere with some cool color scheme saying, you know, Lakers versus Nuggets. That is a commemorative token that you can collect based upon that unique experience or even purchase. So it's really ushering in this next evolution of being able to share.

19:10Rob : not only things that are utility driven, such as like, where are my favorite pizza spots if you're visiting New York, or my favorite bagel spots if you're visiting New York, but also these beautiful persons I'm talking about, is Ethan.

19:22Rob : hey, I've engaged pretty heavily in all, I went to all of your pizza spots. I've done all that. And so.

19:29Rob : I now have the opportunity to incentivize and reward people who are actively engaging in my world.

19:37Mikita : you

19:38Mikita : That is so cool. And y'all going to actually be in Denver, right? Yes. Yeah. Okay. And this is the first time y'all doing that for Denver to map out like.

19:52Mikita : Yeah, there's big locations or.

19:52Rob : Yeah.

19:55Rob : Totally, totally. Yeah. So Denver is our, our first big release of the system. So with Denver, we, we created the Biddle Week slash ETH Denver channel. And ETH Denver is, is short for it's Ethereum, it's an Ethereum conference.

20:09Mikita : Damn.

20:15Rob : And so there's gonna be people from all over the world visiting Denver. And so what we did in partnership with them was create a interactive Denver, like the city of Denver map, where there is a combination of points of interest that are just basic things like, you know,

20:38Rob : of basic importance of where the venue locations, where are some good places to eat, where are some of the satellite events and parties that are being thrown. So there's that element of the maps, which is familiar, and we would be able to.

20:55Rob : experience through other map technologies, but then we take it and we go deeper. And so there's going to be culture walks, so there's going to be digital artwork that's going to be in the Capitol building and around the Capitol grounds that's going to be published from some really remarkable artists in the space. And there's also going to be a reward that's going to be tied to the individual that goes and sees the most pieces that are in the Capitol art walk. So there's that component to it. And then we're going to have one of the maps that's tied to the Denver Channel is going to be curated by, it's called Storytime DAO. And so people are going to start telling stories through, we have a tool that allows you to lead.

21:47Rob : a text message, but the text message is actually visualized in 3D.

21:52Rob : at a given location.

21:56Rob : And so they're going to start telling stories on the streets and anchoring different stories at different locations around the city for people to be able to explore.

22:05Rob : And then, yeah, and then we have.

22:09Rob : Let's see, we have this culture walk that's gonna be curated by, it's called Mint Gold Dust, and they're a marketplace. They work with a lot of really compelling artists. And they're going to be doing specifically a culture walk tied to the Rhino District, which is basically, they're like the arts district of Denver. And that's gonna be another really cool one because they have segmented by different themes, by different streets and different areas, these parts of the art walk. And so if you go to illust.ar right now, it's still under wraps, but all of this is gonna be released next Friday. And so next Friday is the big day. And then we're gonna be adding.

22:57Rob : new experiences to the map from the 24th of February until basically March 5th. It's going to be kind of rapid-fire. And then what's also a unique thing about the map is that it's going to be a little

23:13Rob : We're, we also have the ability, if you are looking to create a map.

23:20Rob : we could be able to create, essentially make the map exclusive if you'd want, and exclusive only to your friends or to people that are your fans. And we do this through a mechanic, it's called token gating. And token gating is basically like...

23:37Rob : there's a door, do you have the key to the lock? And so, but the key in the sense is a digital token, an NFT, that's on the blockchain, but it's essentially a lock and key system. So it's really easy as an artist to be able to say, hey, just head that 2500 members back, 1,500 members back,.for the CLC, three times or so

23:57Rob : here's a bunch of free keys you can access my world. You can say, you know what? I'm not gonna put a lock on the door. So I don't even need to do that. It's just open play. Anyone can come in and see it. And some people are gonna be like, I've created a really compelling game.

24:11Rob : it's going to, there might, you might have to pay for a ticket, you might have to pay for a key to get it. And so that they can be able to make money and be incentivized to keep building this really cool and immersive experiences.

24:23Rob : But for each Denver, all of them.

24:25Rob : I believe except for one is going to be.

24:28Rob : They're all going to be free experiences, but they might require a key.

24:31Rob : And so we have, so we're going to be releasing this Wednesday. It's called a passport. And so the passport is going to be the key. And so you might've seen on, or we're talking about this on Twitter right now, if you're following us on it's illust space on Twitter, but we we're going to be releasing this concept, which is a passport and a passport gives me access. And it basically allows me to go into these different virtual worlds. So we're thinking of a metaphor, like what metaphor would fit us exploring these different territories and these different, different, you know, fiefdoms and worlds created by other people, it's like, Oh, a passport. And then for certain ones that are, are locking keyed, I might need a visa to go access those lands. So that's kind of the concept that we're really saying it's, it's free for any new users and it's really easy to claim a passport and we highly recommend claiming a passport before going into the experience because claiming a passport will also walk you through the tutorial flow of how the application works and will, it'll be your first like augmented reality claiming in the application. So to claim the passport, you'll actually be in an ARC where you'll see a virtual passport in, in the world. So you know, just having a virtual passport is, is not enough to claim this white wall. It has a lot more potential to get into.

25:46Mikita : Oh, awesome. And that's going to kick off on Wednesday, the 22nd, right? Get your passport. You know, you ready for the 24th.

25:53Rob : Exactly.

25:57Mikita : Because that's when everything will be like, if you're going to be in Denver or planning, whatever your plans are, this is an experience for you.

26:05Rob : Exactly.

26:07Rob : Yep, yep, 24th 5 PM Pacific time. We're going to be doing like a clubhouse or during that time and walking folks through and all that good stuff. So.

26:18Mikita : That's going to be truly, truly exciting. I'm going to have to check in with you later, just send you a message and see how it goes and how everything went.

26:26Rob : Yeah, absolutely.

26:27Mikita : Absolutely.

26:28Mikita : Yes. So.

26:31Mikita : Have you looked ahead or are you just like right now just being in the moment of present or are you already like OK, what's going to happen next?

26:40Rob : Totally. Yeah, so we do know what we want to do next and what we're building towards.

26:49Rob : I think what you're seeing right now is.

26:52Rob : There's definitely some things that we've been cleaning up, but.

26:58Rob : I'm very, I'm really proud of the, our development team and our creative team for.

27:03Rob : just their ability to really look forward and be building the technologies that

27:09Rob : I think six months from now are going to be things that.

27:14Rob : are going to be talked about, but they've been building them for the last, you know, six months prior. So there's a good we have a, as we release things.

27:23Rob : we've really been setting the pace and setting the curve. And again, kind of going back, doing the first AR NFT and seeing the now how ubiquitous NFT technology is and 3D graphics are and things that can be AR rendered. It's, I think it's just kind of a premonition of what's to come, but without giving too much away.

27:46Rob : Some of the, there's some cool features that are going to be introduced. We have a couple of brands that we're going to be partnering with over the next few months that are on some blue chip names and then, and of course, and some, some fantastic musicians that we've been working with in record labels, such as mesh records and Max Cooper, which we're really excited about his generative project. But as far as the features, we are going to be implementing a more time based and scarcity elements into the, into the experiences. So pins on the map may only be on the map for a short period of time. And if say 10 people go in and activate the experience, it might disappear completely. So there's going to be some elements to it, which are going to be, you really have to be there at that place in that time or, or within that day, otherwise it's going to be gone. And so that's going to really be setting the stage for some of our purchase.

28:48Rob : our partners and this kind of concept that we've been building out, which is, it's kind of like a.

28:53Mikita :

28:55Rob : We're calling it the Fidgetle Storefront.

28:57Rob : It's kind of like a, it's like a virtual merch booth more or less. So you can go to a given location and once you're at that, so you go to a concert and only at that concert at that day and that time, will you have access to a very limited edition item, which could be a signed poster, could be. Digital wearable. So it could be a shirt that you can then migrate over to say a video game that you're playing. It could be really any manner of things could be even music could even be a single from the album. So we're just really starting to kick up the different, different ways that you can you can activate the system to create unique experiences.

29:41Mikita : Awesome. I feel like, you know, the sky's the limit. Like there's so much you can do. And I'm really looking forward to seeing what else is going to happen next. But with your busy schedule and everything that you have doing, how do you, what are one or two things you do to prioritize yourself?

30:01Rob : 100%, 100%. And that's, and that's really important through the sprint. I feel like as soon as I got back, we, I went, I was on my honeymoon into the new year and as soon as I got back, I wasn't sure if it was just because we're sprinting that, you know, we're working really hard or if it's just because I'm coming back from a honeymoon where I didn't work and got to relax. That it just feels harder, but, but no, I, in all honesty, I think I've gotten really regimented over the last two months for sure. And I really, I have to carve out time for myself. The weekends are really important to me for sleep and for rejuvenating myself. I was able to, after my honeymoon, I, I got the bug to surf again. And, and that that's always been a, it's been a lifelong sport of mine. And so every Saturday, like clockwork, I'm trying to go surfing somewhere. I have to do that. It's time for me to just get away from technology, get away from people. Sometimes it's people don't get me wrong, but just like be in my own little bubble. And, and that has been really, really sanitizing.

31:19Rob : And then I really try and.

31:25Rob : I'd really try and at least take mental breaks throughout the day.

31:30Rob : I might, it might sound a little, not neurotic, but just, yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of different tips and tricks and I've been trying to be as like efficient as possible because.

31:40Rob : sometimes.

31:41Rob : I'll be working just insane hours, but then I realized that some of the insane hours weren't necessarily efficient.

31:49Rob : And so I've been, I've been testing out in the last two weeks, I've been testing out the, I basically set a timer on my, on my, on my clock and my phone.

32:00Rob : for an hour and a half.

32:02Rob : And in that hour and a half window.

32:04Rob : I just go as hard as I can. Just focus on one specific activity that I need to get done.

32:10 Rob: And then I just try and crush that out. And usually most hard tasks usually fit in that like hour and a half category where whether it's a blog post or a press release or a pitch deck or whatever it is, like in that hour and a half pocket, I just go as hard as I can on that topic. And then I go for a walk. And I go for about a 20 minute walk just around the block just to clear my mind and get some space from it.

32:40Rob : And then I come back into it. And then I find that little moment, if I'm still working on that same thing, that 20 minute bit of space really helps just fire different neurons or whatever it is. And I feel like I came into it more clear. And then I go for another hour and a half just to like, I mean, usually at that point, I'm able to do most tasks in a busy day within three hours of just full go mode. And I pause the clock if I go and I get up and I get water or something like that. I really try and stick to that. And then I realized, well, you know what? If I do six of these in a given day, that means I can for sure get eight hours of sleep. And so I really try and I'm trying to optimize my efficiency versus my time just sitting in my chair.

33:32Mikita : Yeah.

33:33Rob : And that's helped me really be able to balance a lot of the stress and a lot of the.

33:38Rob : the action that's been coming up because I'm still able to get some decent sleep, but I'm also able to really be focusing on performance in this time.

33:49Mikita : Yeah, I agree with you. Like I am such a procrastinator that I have to, I actually write a to-do list, like, and I'm like, okay, you have to, these are the things you have to do. And then I could say, you have to take a break from it after a while, because after so much time, I'm really not doing much. Like I'm not efficient. This is not working. I have started something totally different when I'm supposed to be working on this. Like, so all over the place, I really have to focus myself and really be committed to it a lot of the times or.

34:26Mikita : I will get on top and then that's it.

34:29Rob : Yeah, no, 100%. And I usually put my phone on airplane mode. I don't check any emails during that time. And so I really just try and like, zone out and only focus on that thing because everything's vying for attention. So it's so easy to feel like we're really getting things done. But in reality, we're, we're changing tabs, or we're, you know, we're opening different things and, and the cognitive load to like reset and to like get into flow state. It's there's a tax on that and it takes time. So it's and and I also feel like

35:08Rob : really just and only keeping it to an hour and a half, because before I was like, oh yeah, I'll do two and a half hours or something like that. But then like the fatigue starts to creep in of all the other things. Cause I know if I could just keep in line for that hour and a half that, and I know that I can do at least six of these in a day, that it's gonna be a super productive day and I'm gonna wake up the next morning feeling decently rested.

35:36Mikita : Yeah, I agree. I like to, like you spoke about being in flow, prioritize things that the way that they flow, so I'm not mentally switching so many gears.

35:47Mikita : Because the the mental switching gears is hard, so I have to make sure i'm staying in a certain flow before i'm switching like Okay, now this is totally different thing that you're doing over here. I have to stay in that like if i'm going to be doing blogs and doing blogs, if I have to start doing like some creative artwork or something for you know, then I need to be in that frame of mind and not switching so much.

36:13Rob : Totally.

36:14Rob : Yeah, yeah, that I.

36:17Rob : I'm sure there's definitely.

36:20Rob : I've listened on podcasts in the past about some of some of those things. But yeah, I think it.

36:27Rob : It's a, it's like you need to.

36:31Rob : approach the thing with without any sort of legacy or without any sort of, and granted, there's always great like opportunities when there's cross-bondization where you might be in one mindset and you're kind of using that same mindset on something that is completely different, which is always great, but I definitely think, especially in like sprint mode, is usually we've already set the plan back in January of what we need to get done, so it's all about just getting it done, versus say when we've been at this ongoing, kind of cheap like campaign like

37:08Rob : In early January, when we're planning, it's kind of like we really need like in planning mode, you really need a lot of space to be able to see all the variables. And, and so that's where I feel like the walk has been really helpful for me. And between these little sprints, the mini sprints throughout the day is that I feel like just even.

37:31Rob : a smell might trigger, I might be like.

37:35Rob : I should write this paragraph. I totally forgot about that. Yeah. Or whatever that might be. And then it's like, ah, okay, cool. Let's do it.

37:38Mikita : Yeah. Whatever.

37:44Mikita : Definitely. And I'm sure, you know, with everything that you've been doing, getting ready for, you know, Denver and, you know, the 3D mapping and the technology that y'all are bringing to them has definitely had to really put in a lot of focus and work. Like you said, you know, like be in that zone.

38:05Rob : Exactly.

38:06Mikita : play.

38:07Rob : Yeah, it's interesting.

38:10Mikita : And.

38:10Rob : I don't know if there's any parallels, but it's, for me, I usually find that.

38:16Rob : When I go surfing, I usually start for about an hour and a half. And I think that's about like the time where I feel like focused on that kind of degree. It's been a good little area. And, and yeah, it's, it's, it's definitely been keeping my, my enthusiasm and energy levels going. And I feel mentally clear and yeah, on the weekends I've really tried to be. As it maybe when I was younger, you know, on the weekends after doing a sprint like this, I just feel like, Oh, give me beer. I need, I need on wines, but now, now it's more like, give me sleep. I just want to sleep and relax. And, and so, yeah, really trying to be, you know, try and get some workouts in throughout the week too, has been, has been really important for just keeping a clear, clear presence of mind. But I don't know if that's a function of me just getting older, but my body craves sleep and exercise and it's, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and,

39:14Rob : On the weekends, I definitely make it happen, eat as much pizza as I can stand. And so that's also the thing I look forward to at the end of the week is a Friday night pizza tour around LA.

39:27Mikita : Anthony oopsed me!

39:29Mikita : I love that. Well, tell people how they can get that passport, where they can go, how they can connect with you.

39:39Rob : Totally. Totally. So yeah, please connect with us. It's at I L L U S T S P A C E on Twitter, illustspace. And then our application is going to be ready to go for passport claiming on Wednesday at 5 PM Pacific time on illust.ar. So I L L U S T dot AR. And that's the mapplication, if you will, to be able to, uh, it's all online too. So you don't need to download an app. It's on the app store. It's something that you can just easily click into your browser, mobile device or desktop to claim a passport. And, and yeah, if you, if you go and claim a passport, make sure you leave a, leave a message somewhere in the world, share it with your friends. And, and if you're in Denver, please hit us up. We'll be, we'll be around. So, yeah, really appreciate it.

40:34Mikita : Yes, well, thank you so much, Rob, for just coming on and sharing your space. You guys, if you did not have a chance to write that down, do not worry. All of that information will be with you in the show notes. I just want to thank you all for being here and don't forget to join me for each and every Tuesday as we spill more delicious hot tea until next time. Namaste.

40:56Rob : Take care.